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How to change the (art) world (in cumbria) and beyond- a question
If we could do three things that would revolutionise artists practice,galleries and audiences in Cumbria- what would they be?
Are we happy for cumbria to continue to be perceived as a cultural backwater?
Do we want it to ourselves,shall we keep it quiet and use it as our own artistic retreat?
Do we need more funding or is it just more opportunities?
Would a proper,artist led bi-monthly publication help? Like a local AN but with a focus on critical dialogue, development and debate..?(those of you who know it,think Carlisle crack,but with funding, a bent on real artists,and an in-house designer)
How can we network effectively given the distance and those big bits of water-should we network with each other or further afield?(its easier to get to glasgow from carlisle than barrow)
Where does all the money for culture in Cumbria go?
How does the rural art world work? or are we all just part-time city artists with a complicated process -making work in Cumbria,selling in the city?
Any one fancy a monthly gathering in a pub? which pub?
should it tour around,like a very slow pub crawl...
Just musing...
x hannah
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Comments
Art is essentially
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
Pub crawl... Sounds good to me... mind it might be slow with me tagging along, unless I use mi chariot!
I think the councils and business folk up here need to pay more notice to the Arts.. They pump money into tourism, yet hardly any of it comes to the arts.. The Arts can genarate a lot of revenue, creat work (jobs) across the whole area..
I'm all for anything that creats a wider understanding and forms links across all of Cumbria's councils and business's
so... if there's lots of tourists
so... if there's lots of tourists then what's the best way of tapping into an audience that's already there???
How?
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
Well.... I think in my area of work I'd like to see more financial support for open workshops/studio gallery places, where visitors can see stuff been made also offering have a go workshops/working along side artists; Art learning an'working holidays, B&B's, Hotels and the Arts/Artists could work togther.. A scheme like this would benefit everyone, I bet you'd see an increes in sales of made and bought in Cumbria at these type of outlets.
http://anneduffyart.mysite.or
http://anneduffyart.mysite.orange.co.uk
You're describing the sort of schemes that operate in Dumfries and Galloway, that place of relentless commercialism, and they do not benefit everyone. The "Spring Fling" open studios weekend generates a lot of sales for jewellers and potters (and I wish them well) but not for painters. There are workshops and studios where it is a condition of the lease to be there 6 days a week and open to the public every day and I know artists who have rented these places and given them up because they have found they could not actually get on with their work.
I don't know why people assume tourists buy art. Most of them buy souvenirs and knick-knacks.
Art is essentially
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
If I am? It was not intended.. May be tourists is the wrong word? But I do know of people that are willing to pay as much as £400.00 for a three day course with Wood Sculptors, classes of up to eight at a time.. plus paying to stay at local B+B's/Hotels...Also many come back year after year..
As for the set up in Dumfries & Galloway? I can't comment, but surely it's a start point....? I mean look at what works as well as what dosn't... Then try to come up with an improved version/format..
http://anneduffyart.mysite.or
http://anneduffyart.mysite.orange.co.uk
yes...I was trying to say that one size dosn't fit all, what works for makers dosn't necessarily work for fine artists and vice versa, also selling isn't the be-all and end-all of making art. I'm not getting at anybody, just fed up with what seems to be the constant pressure on us to be something other than an artist i.e. to be a business person, to sell "product," to perform for the public, to open up our creative lives and workspaces for them, to teach, to demonstrate, to turn cartwheels. When was the last time anybody got a straightforward grant to produce work?
Lets shut the studio door and get back to the drawing board!
art and selling... or not
That's really interesting and i kind of agree, but it does bring the question to mind - who or what are you making art for?
Art is essentially
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
What would closing the studio doors achive, other than starve... I can just see some sort of time team programme in the very distant future.... Doing a dig and coming across a couple of skeletons laid across some remains of a drawing board.... One turns to the other and says "Here we have it a perfect EXAMPLE of the LOST ART TRIB; THEY LOCKED THEMSELVES AWAY IN THE NAME OF THEIR CAUSE! THEY STARVED TO DEATH YOU KNOW" Lol!
In my field it's imports from the far east..The work is normally high standerd, but I dare say the only people are making money are the businessmen, importer, wholesaler, and retailer.. I bet the poor artist over where ever dosen't get much...
I know that I eat more than a couple bowls of rice to survive..
http://anneduffyart.mysite.or
http://anneduffyart.mysite.orange.co.uk
My studio is my creative space. That is where I paint. I exhibit my paintings and offer some of them for sale in public and private galleries and other spaces that I choose. These days I do not wish to share my creative space or my creative process with the general public (altough I am more than happy to share with other artists) and I do not see the need so to do. I have done all sorts of jobs to put food on the table and now I choose to live very frugally in order to paint. I do not see my art as "a business." If that is the way you see your art that is your privilege. Both positions are valid.
Art is essentially
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
I agree and understand your point of view.. It was the same for me along time ago... but like I said I up't sticks and started a Wooden Toy & Childrens Furniture business.. I soon found that people wern't going to buy them just because I'd made by hand.. Not many IF any? Were interested in how they were made.. Most were only interested in how much they cost and how much profit they'd make selling them! I had to alter/simplify and even drop some of my designes. At that time I had to compromies I needed to get my things out the door and money in... After a good number of years I had to sell my business and retire due to my disability catching up.
I can only see the way forward for Artists, Craftworkers in fact any provider is to treat the whole exercise as a business.. There is a need for Artists skills and buiness skills to work together. The Arts need to be promoted.. To do that it needs marketing... Marketing is what the buisness section knows best.. We need business skills.. New ground breaking ART is great, but it needs inventing, marketing and your still goverend by what the customer/public wants or thinks it wants/needs!?
Well! Thats all from me..... It's Christmas I'm off to put mi feet up and have a relaxing fun time. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Very, Very Happy and Prosprus New Year
Clive
...
I'm from Liverpool but am doing my degree up in Carlisle and I think all though there is a lot going on in Liverpool and Manchester, and this might sound strange, but sometimes I prefer it in Carlisle. Due to the city being smaller it's a lot easier to make an impact on your own, or even in a group but also be appreciated for your individual works within that group exhibition etc.
It's interesting that Cumbria has this idea of art being about drawing buttercups, as Hannah said, and I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, in away it's good to have a place that is different from the bigger cities.
However what I think would be interesting to show is that there are artists here that are a little more adventures that like to experiment and poke fun at themselves.
e.g the Hoe, Ho, Ho Christmas themed erotic art at the bank_gallery_
(work entered by the Carlisle Arts Hub)
3 things
Do you think Cumbria needs a revolution? what makes Cumbria so different from, say Shropshire? Both have big bits of rural, but the people still mainly live in the large towns and cities (I use the word city loosely here). The rural arts scene is a fallacy. There is no rural arts scene. There's very little arts scene anywhere outside the major cities. The same around the world. Why? There really aren't that many artists out there. We all want to feel that we are part of something big and important, but maybe we are just deluding ourselves. So if you can accept that there is no art scene - you know it's true - do we really need one? Who says that arts scenes are the best thing for artists anyway? What's wrong with just making art because you want to / have to / nothing better on the telly? Maybe not having a scene is the most revolutionary gesture we can make - just as long as we don't all make it at the same time - then it'll look organised as if it's a scene afterall.
As for a monthly pub gathering, I already gather weekly in a pub but never see any other artists. Strange.
the zoo isn’t the best thing for lions...
Maybe an art scene isn’t the best thing for artists, in the same way that the zoo isn’t the best thing for lions and elephants, but they may both be the best way for things to be seen, an 'art scene' can be something tangible for the rest of the world to relate to, an collective of interesting people and work, with broad enough transferable skills and approaches that ‘the scene’ becomes an entity in itself...and its an acceptable model, we are accustomed to seeing animals behind bars and seeing artists in groups, with a glass of wine in one hand and a lady of the night on the other.
(Maybe that’s it, all other art historical rural artists congregated around brothels, If I set up an art gallery with studios, a bar and a brothel we’d be on to a winner.)
x Hannah
wild at heart
Not sure I agree about the zoo analogy. I think animals are best seen in the wild, but I'm not keen on open studios. I think there probably is an art scene in Cumbria - or rather art scenes. Each one is limited by its own shared grounds of interest. some would argue the Penrith Art Club is an art scene of sorts. I think the idea of a Hoxton-type bo-ho thing going down across the country is probably not going to happen. The geography is way too big and the population too small. I think the N, S & Cockermouth Hubs are probably the closest thing. There may only be a handful of core members in each, but that's still proportionally more than in London's trendier places. This forum malarkey is another indicator - there are allegedly hundreds of artists signed up for this website, but only 5 or six are actively using the discussion facilities (and I'm guessing that there are more than a couple of repeat aliases there to make it look livelier..).
I think the other questions are more interesting. Where does all the Culture money in Cumbria go? Mostly to the same old places - certainly not to new or relatively new ventures (Although this Network seems to do alright out of it so don't grumble). However, more importantly, why doesn't Cumbria invest in culture like the rest of the UK? Ten years of under-investment has left it years behind anywhere else, and not able to attract the real proactive and engaging people to deliver anything exciting.
Cumbria is also spectacularly good at not getting its shit together. What few groups and people are about trying to do stuff, just can't get on in a sensible way with each other. there is a perennial problem of Empire Building which sees groups more concerned with doing their own thing, than actively working alongside each other to build a more sustainable future for culture. The result is that the county and other partners employ pen pushers to set up artificial partnerships in an attempt to make it look as though everyone is together. It's all an elaborate illusion.
Cumbria can be a lively and engaging artistic place to live and work, but it will take leadership from someone with drive and passion - and a good business head to make it happen. As yet the vacancy is still unfilled.
the other solution is to encourage the next generation of artists to get more vocal and replace the old guard - is that the revolution model you are thinking of? The problem with that is how to avoid replacing one clique with another. I personally sign up to the anarchy model, and a new monthly mag free from all the old baggage is a step in the right direction. I'd subscribe.
transportation
what artists in cumbria need are, more boats, helicopters, and light aircraft. then i could go to an art gene from carlisle and not be dead by the end of the night.
Anarchy
ok, lets do anarchy! I propose a change of residency policy, a radical rethinking of how artists engage with residency opportunities. Basically, its time we (artists) found our own residencies in places where we want/need to work. And when I say work I mean work: in a factory, a shoe shop, a laundrette, macdonalds etc. Wouldn't it be a weight of all our shoulders if we just got regular jobs and called them residencies. We could then make work relating to our job or whatever we wanted to, without the need to comply with some governing force (apart from clocking-in of course).
How many artists feel so disenfranchised from the 'artworld' that they would actually consider spending next summer finding their own residency. Is the new proverb going to be: the only way to break free from an 'ace wank', is to do it yourself?
Maybe this could be a project for 2008, the question is, do we need external funding to make it happen?
Excellent idea
I'm all up for artists doing it for themselves, infact i think its the only way forward if you want to a) survive and b) be a professional practising artist.
There is also an argument that because we've had public funding over the last 20 or so years that has gradually increased towrards grants 'for being artists' there bred a train of thought from a large percentage of todays creative practitioners who think that the Arts Council owes them one simply because they are an artist - what bollocks!
I think we should run a campaign called "ARTISTS GET OFF THEIR ARSES" and start thinking about the whole concept of the business of being an artist as a business, instead of a 'do it for the love of it' mind set. That way people might start respecting what we do and pay accordingly!
Art is essentially
Art is essentially Individual in Fact “Individuality” Makes the Artist!
"I think we should run a campaign called "ARTISTS GET OFF THEIR ARSES" and start thinking about the whole concept of the business of being an artist as a business, instead of a 'do it for the love of it' mind set. That way people might start respecting what we do and pay accordingly!"
I and other said the same in Birmingham back in 80's... A lot of fellow Artist's (mainly students) were horrified at such a thing been said/suggested.. I just up sticks an started my own business, making and selling Childrens Wooden toys and Furniture ( my own style an' design) But I had to drop a lot of stuff because it didn't lend it selfe to been manufactured at a livable cost! Cumbria an Buttercups??? I think you'll find it sells, thats why all the "wanna be safe artist" are churnning that kind of stuff out... What it needs is re-inventing and marketted as if it's new... IF IT AIN'T BROKE..IT DON'T NEED MENDING JUST GIVE IT FACE LIFT
artists and their arses
Artists are getting off their arses and doing alright out of it. Or at least making a living / existance. the ones who really struggle are those that think that calling themselves an artist and tinker around the artworld in a precious / precocious fashion and bemoan the state of arts council fiunding. The only reason they're struggling, quite frankly is because they're crap and really ought to be accountants or newsagents or something else. Stand away from art if it hurts. that way we can get back to some interesting new movements in art. call it natural selection if you like.
What's wrong with the 'for the love of it' mind set? If you seriously think about art in terms of generating an income, you are sadly deluded. Even more so if you feel that the world undervalues you in a financial sense. In moentary terms, the value of art is only as much as someone wants to pay for it. It's got nothing to do with respect. That's just a cop out.
By crap artist I don't just mean their work is of no value, but the essence of being an artist is to communicate and express ideas in a creative fashion. If they can't find a way to do that without state funding, they clearly aren't creative thinkers. There's nothing wrong with taking a mundane job to earn money and separate money from making art. I actually think it a noble gesture. If you then create a body of work about the experience of flipping burgers, then that's better still.
Q.How do most of the well-known artists make their bread and butter money?
A. By teaching. It's a day job. Nothing wrong with it. Doesn't make them less successful as artists. It merely enables them the freedom to make art.
There's nothing new here. It's not revolutionary. There doesn't need to be a call to arms. If you are expecting to earn a living from art and it's not happening you have to ask yourself 'why?' Then you can ask 'what am I going to do about it?'the answer is not in the arts council, never has been, never will be. As David Cameron recently observed "Arts Council? Isn't that about one-legged lesbian dancers?". The man has spoken...
So,thinking creatively...
How can the network,this website and anything else it embodies become sustainable without funding from the arts council and similar?
Does the membership fee seem reasonable to you or is this something that will cease to be a forum for discussion if you have to pay to air your views?
(Personal practise wise,i agree-Artists need to recognise and utilise transferable skills,organisation,project management,welding,Teaching or whatever...Money from sales fluctuates way too much to pay the bills,even if you stoop to paintings of cumbrian butterscotch.)
x hannah
the answer?
I don't know the answer to this one, but i'd welcome some feedback on it.
Personally I'd be happy to pay as an artist if I was getting something out of it - simply being in touch with like minded artists in the area and feeling that there ARE exciting things going on in the backwaters of Cumbria is a good thing - having contact and dialogue about art work is something that is vital for my practice, so I'm pleased to be a part of something. Yes I'd like to go to events, yes I'd like to hear artists and arts managers and curators talk and tell me their experiences, yes I'd like to go to Liverpool Biennial, yes I'd like to be the first to hear about opportunities, yes I'd like access to professional development tailored for creative people, and yes i'd like to learn about things that are specific to me, yes i'd like to meet other artists (and a few gallery owners please), yes I'd like to have access to resources, yes i'd like to go camping with a bunch of peope who I since discovered think in similar ways to me, yes i'd like to be in contact with other artists groups from London and Glasgow and Edinburgh and Lancaster and Gloucester and Hull, and yes I'd like to find people who i can have a decent conversation with about the materials i use and the way i work. Having said that its half the reason I started the Network, so I'm slightly biased.
It would be nice to see some more views on this forum, there's 250 people who have logged in to the site but i'm wondering if people feel intimidated about posting on the forum? Or perhaps people aren't used to it?
I also should probably let people know what's happening funding wise and the knock on effect to Network events - or lack of - i'll explain this a little better in the next newsletter.
It'll be interesting to see how this site helps (or hinders?) artists and the creative community in Cumbria. Its been a hell of an effort to get the whole Network thing going over the last few years and only because its grown and grown - so I hope it doesn't fall flat because then we'll all miss out. Hopefully one way it won't (and this is the whole 'sustainable' thing i guess) is for people to interact on this space (as well as other spaces of course) - find artists who work in simlar ways to you and have a conversation, suggest an idea and see who else might be interested, organise a trip, find someone to do an exhibition with, have a party, invite people to look at your drawings, look at someone else's drawings... (and yes I'm using drawings as an example, and no I don't want to have an argument about why) if it becomes an active space we can then build our own community, our own sense of place and our own buzz - why not? This is not an ideal - its an idea, and this is a gigantic pot, its open to discussion, its not my Network it will develop according to the people to use it, change it and input into it - so you can throw your ideas in there too if you want to...
Kate
The Cumbria Network
reading the posts and not joining in
i've got a lot of info from reading these posts. probably have got things to say, but not sure whether they would fit in - will wait a bit - hope people aren't feeling unable to join in though.
is it possible to be ruthless about artistic practice (which we should be) and be tolerant of the multitude of imperfect people who spend time practising it?
http://anneduffyart.mysite.or
http://anneduffyart.mysite.orange.co.uk
I've been reading this topic with interest,as,living in S.W. Scotland, I've always read the Newsletter with envy at all that's going on in Cumbria. Of course it's nowhere near the level of activity that goes on in Liverpool and Manchester (I used to live between the two) but that's only to be expected. It will always be reletive to the density of the population.
I do art for the love of it and I certainly don't sit around waiting for funding (some chance) but communal money goes to lots of people in this country so why not artists? esp. to things like the Network that couldn't be carried by an individual. An awful lot of people get a living off our backs -Arts Managers, gallery owners, publications, printers, card manufacturers, makers of pots and pans....all dependent on art and design (and lets not forget a lot of "useful" design feeds off "useless" Fine Art. )
As for the Forum - it's time consumming, but a lot of it is witty and entertaining, worth a read even if you've nothing to add.
Anne
theres already an art scene in cumbria
i think this forum serves as evidence of this, look how many of us post... not a huge amount but surely enough to count as a 'scene'
for myself, id love to see networking and a sharing of opportunities, and the creation of new opportunities grow in cumbria, and also more support from other artists ie going to other peoples openings and shows, offering feedback and a kick up the arse when its needed....
thats my idea of what a scene should be-or maybe thats more of a community...
what do you want then?
I agree.
I can also let you know that the Network now has some funding for the next couple of years so we'll be resuming networking activities, or, even better, helping you to do your own networking activities - BUT you need to tell us what you want to doooo!
I'd really love to see people visiting each other round the county and feeding back - what's the best way to help people to do this? And is anyone interested? Maybe we could put aside some travel / lunch / bursary money?!!?!!?!!
What else do you want to do?!!
The Cumbria Network
id like
a network mini bus.... or even a giant monorail like at alton towers... although i appreciate that might be slightly out of budget.
i think we should organise network field trips where we all hold hands in a crocodile and meet people who dont live in cumbria. or/and big network events where everyone makes a big effort to get to the same place at once and meet each other
oh yeah... the funding would be in there somewhere..
merry and invitation:
The discussion on the web site is interesting to read—personally if I should have lived of just income from art I would be dead by now-- but thanks to AN I did a couple of art related project this summer for the local community and using your knowledge that way feels good, the more individdual art stuff is like ongoing projects to develop and takes ages to ripen and sometimes
belongs to the “ unsaleable” catagori ,and sometimes I have been thinking why not use energy/creativity in a more “proper” (eeegh!) way, but Hmmm! feel lucky when I can work
as I like!---And I think the ( and this might be very stupidd in liberalistic –/kapitalistic terms ) this world needs some stuff to shake it!! ( more than buttercups!)
Just a couple of days ago you could read Copeland is given some millions £, because of letting some space for nuclear depo – you know my first thought is , when I was a small girl I was warned “ do not take candy from strangers!!!” , can not help thinking howe to turn that one into some artpiece , same with another actual read : Sciencist says it might look even worse with sea rise as former predictions – well I could sort imaging an installation with 10 lifesavingboats tied on to lamppostes down Cockermouth mainstreet--- (might take some funding mind you !)--
Now before finishing off with merry wintersolstice ,- christmas and happy new year :)
I like to invite you to Art/ Awareness public meeting s --
We made 2 meetings to be able to reach as many as possible:
Wednesday 6 -9 pm at gallery NEO in Cockermouth Marketplace or/and
Saturday 3 -6 pm Kirkgate Centre , Cockermouth
AA are a group working along with Riversmeet which is a group working for moving the community in a sustainable direction and we have been granted some funds –and the idear is to make a fringefestival next summer ( next to the tradiotional cockermouth festival geogian etc (buttercup))
some people are in to drama, poetry making recycle bags etc. and the meeting is to get more idears going--
Howe about AN doing a get together part of it ?! ( could even be something that could visit other towns) whatever..
WELL MERRY EVERYBODY!!
Jette.